Swedish registered VHF with UK Licence?

[TommyV]

In my attempts to get myself set up with a VHF sallsign and MMSI number I have found myself in a bit of a dilemma.

I applied to Post & Telestyrelsen for a VHF ships licence, callsign and MMSI number, and at the same contacted Stockholm Radio to see if it would be possible to do the Swedish VHF operator certificate in English, which they thought would not be a problem. However, when contacting the examiner, I was told that the test had to be done in Swedish, and all answers had to be in Swedish and I wasn't allowed a translator. I may just about be able to understand the questions in Swedish, but my Swedish is not good enough to write the answers.

A few days later I received my ships licence and numbers from Post & Telestyrelsen. I dont want to cancel these, as the most important thing for me is the safety of my boat and crew, and I see having a VHF on board as very important.

Does anyone know if it is ok for me to use my VHF on the boat with my UK VHF operators licence? It must be ok for people with foreign licences to use VHFs in Swedish waters, but I notice that my UK licence allows me to operate a VHF on any British vessel, and my boat is Swedish, so technically it may be an issue.

Obviously for anyone with common sense this is not a problem, but sometimes the marine authorities (particularly the French, English and Dutch) can be difficult about this sort of thing. What are they like in Sweden as I have never had any dealings with them?

[DDF]

TommyV i would be surprised if it would be any problem, indeed several people that attended the VHF license course i add earlier this year were planning to sail in the mediterranean with rental boats and operating the VHF. The license i have states "The certificate is international and entitles the holder to operate the international maritime VHF band". Something also about compliance to "resolution 343 (WRC-97). I dont see why it should be more limited with a british license?

And if you get into troubles, you just have to remind that "Britannia rules the waves!"

Other option, if you are a british citizen, maybe you can simply sail under British flag! I am foreign citizen myself and i think there is a rule about nationality of the boat owner and what flag to sail under, like has to be same flag as nationality of the =>50% owner. Maybe somebody else knows better.

br
david

[TommyV]

That is a very good point DDF, of course if you rent a boat abroad it will be registered to different country, yet you can still use the VHF.

I could register the boat as a British boat, and fly a British ensign, but that would cost money. The flag you fly must be the country in which the boat is registered, makes no difference where the owner/skipper is from.

[DDF]

I found the law text, looks like no problem to have the swedish flag anyway.

1 kap. Om fartyg

Nationalitet

1 § Ett fartyg skall anses som svenskt och vara berättigat att
föra svensk flagg, om det till mer än hälften ägs av svenska
medborgare eller svenska juridiska personer.

Följande fartyg skall dock inte anses som svenska och inte
vara berättigade att föra svensk flagg, om de är införda i ett
offentligt fartygsregister i något annat land än Sverige inom
Europeiska ekonomiska samarbetsområdet:

1. fartyg som ingår i en ekonomisk verksamhet som har
etablerats i det registerförande landet, om fartygets drift
leds och kontrolleras därifrån,

2. fartyg som inte ingår i en ekonomisk verksamhet, om
fartyget

- vanligen finns i det registerförande landet, och

- till mer än hälften ägs av fysiska personer som vistas i det
registerförande landet och som antingen är medborgare i det
landet eller vistas där med stöd av reglerna om fri rörlighet
för personer inom Europeiska gemenskaperna eller Europeiska
ekonomiska samarbetsområdet. Lag (1997:266).

1 a § I andra fall än som avses i 1 § skall ett fartyg anses
som svenskt och vara berättigat att föra svensk flagg, om
fartyget är infört i ett sådant skepps- eller båtregister som
avses i 2 §. Lag (1997:266).

1 b § Regeringen eller efter regeringens bemyndigande
Sjöfartsverket får medge att även andra fartyg än de som avses
i 1 eller 1 a § skall anses som svenska och vara berättigade
att föra svensk flagg. Ett sådant medgivande får lämnas bara om
fartygets drift står under ett avgörande svenskt inflytande
eller om ägaren har fast hemvist i Sverige.

Regeringen får meddela föreskrifter om nationalitetshandlingar
för svenska fartyg. Regeringen får därvid bestämma vad som
skall iakttas med sådana handlingar samt förbjuda att
registreringspliktigt eller registrerat fartyg hålls i drift
utan gällande nationalitetshandling. Lag (1997:266).

[Anders S]

Guys, this is a compound problem.

The ships license is no real problem (and, solved already, it seems). The radio operators "certificate of competence" is another matter, and someone aboard the yacht need to have that certificate to comply with regulations. I strongly suspect that the international "SRC certificate" solves this problem nicely. It may be a option to upgrade your VHF operators licence in the UK to SRC status (basically, it's all about updating to GMDSS).

[Sten_Ljungkvist]

My interpretation of the laws are as follows:
If you own the boat ( more than 50%) and is an UK citizen then you must fly UK flag, have UK call sign and UK MMSI number given to you from UK authorities.

[Jens K]

My interpretation of the laws are as follows:
If you own the boat ( more than 50%) and is an UK citizen then you must fly UK flag, have UK call sign and UK MMSI number given to you from UK authorities.

Yes, I think formally according to the law you are right. However, there still is 1 b §. If you call SBU (svenska båtunionen) and ask for a International Certtificate for Pleasure Craft and tell them you are not a Swedish citizen, but an EU one, they will give it to you. This would make the boat Swedish in some way. So there must be some rule that applies to craft that are too small to be in the shipping registry. As there is no need for small pleasure craft to be registered at all, the legal status seems to be a trifle unclear.

PS: Hi Tommy, I presume you are Swenglish Tommy from YBW are you not?

[Sten_Ljungkvist]

The International Certtificate for Pleasure Craft from swedish SBU is one thing - the nationallity of the boat will still be UK.
I recommend you to contakt UK and swedish authorities. This must be correct. If not you may end up in unpleasant problems.

[Jens K]

The International Certtificate for Pleasure Craft from swedish SBU is one thing(...)

Well, it is THE one thing that proves the nationality of the majority of Swedish pleasure vessels that sail abroad. Most of them are not in the Shipping registry and nationality of owner is not of any consequence abroad. Most countries do have boat registries so do make a difference between the owner's nationality and the boat's.

[Anders S]

It is likely that (around) 500 SEK and a discussion with Sjöfartsverket could solve half of this problem nicely. Someone living in and operating the boat from Sweden may voluntarily register a pleasure craft in the ships register, just like commercial operators have to do (it's mandatory for them). If the boat can be registered there (likely, but no promise), there will be no further discussion about the ships nationality.

But it does not solve the VHF operator licence issue. I suspect (but doesn't know for certain) that a proper UK OPERATOR licence is valid in Sweden, but the SHIPS license will cause trouble unless the boat is properly Swedish registered.

[DDF]

Is not this paragraph making the day and save the 500SEK?
""
1 b § Regeringen eller efter regeringens bemyndigande
Sjöfartsverket får medge att även andra fartyg än de som avses
i 1 eller 1 a § skall anses som svenska och vara berättigade
att föra svensk flagg. Ett sådant medgivande får lämnas bara om
fartygets drift står under ett avgörande svenskt inflytande
eller om ägaren har fast hemvist i Sverige.
""

Otherwise I would feel guilty, starting from a simple question (yet not properly answered yet) about VHF now TommiV may be forced to sail under the Jolly Roger

[Jaramaz]

Now, what is really the problem?

Tommy has got a licence from the swedish regulator (PTS), a licence that gives Tommy the right to operate (as in use) a marine VHF. The licence is connected to a given vessel.

The certificate is something completely different: it says Tommy has (or: once had) the knowledge to operate the equipment. The certificate is personal, valid for Tommy only.

Further, a subsrciption to use the network, operated by Stockholm Radio, is nice to have. This, however, is not necessary.

In my understanding, PTS should have requested Tommy to show his certificate prior to issue any licence. Most probably, PTS has instead a formulation in its application forms, stating that a certificate is mandatory and that the licence is only valid with a certificate (if this is specified as only a swedish certificate, then there is a problem).

Tommy claims to have a certificate (class D, if I remember right).
Tommy has a licence for having and using a VHF on his boat. The licence is valid, as Tommy does have a certificate (se note above).

Conclusion: no problem. All regulations are fulfilled.

One might add: if the VHF is only going to be used for safety, then .... there is really no use of a subscription, and the necessity of a licence could be questioned.
A certificate is always good to have, it is an indication of a comptence once proven.

If PTS require a swedish certificate, then .... go anyhow. There are limits.

BR

/J

[Anders S]

Otherwise I would feel guilty, starting from a simple question (yet not properly answered yet) about VHF now TommiV may be forced to sail under the Jolly Roger

Properly answered: Opinons (@pinons?) are free. Sjöfartsverket is The Authority to ask for advice. It is likely that the (modest) registration fee is the price to pay if a UK citizen would like to sail under a Swedish flag (and have a Swedish VHF callsign).

A reflection on registration: To me, it seems that a boat with a Swedish callsign, a UK owner and no official registration would be a vulnerable vessel in many ports within easy reach from Scandinavia.

[Jaramaz]

Well, again:

Sjöfartsverket is the authority for sea vessels. If one would like to register a sea vessel, this is the place.

PTS is the spectrum and telecom regulator / authority. To register a radio (transmitter) is a matter for PTS.

For having a marine VHF licence, it is not necessary to register the vessel at Sjöfartsverket. Known by most of us. PTS has simplified this procedure. It is sufficient to claim that there is a vessel (aimed for leasure, most likely) and that the equipment is aimed for this vessel.

Tommy has done a reasonable actions. Tommy has a VHF certificate (he claims, no reason to doubt). PTS has issued a licence.
Hence, all regulations are fulfilled.

/J

[Anders S]

I strongly believe that Swedish (ship) nationality is a requisite for a Swedish (sips) permit. For the benefit of TommyV and my own curiosity, I have issued a request for information from PTS if they really can grant foreign boats a VHF permit.

I'll be back, hopefully with facts.